Transcript: Ask the UXperts: User requirements: What users say vs what they really need — with Joe Natoli

Transcript: Ask the UXperts: User requirements: What users say vs what they really need — with Joe Natoli

Joe Natoli
Summary:

Today Hawk hosted special guest Joe Natoli in our Slack channel to talk about user requirements and how to translate what people think they want into functional requirements.

It was a fast paced session and Joe kept up with the best of them! If you didn’t make it, you can see how it all went down here.

Today we hosted a fast moving session in our Slack channel with the amazing Joe Natoli of givegoodux.com. We talked about user requirements and how to get to the bottom of what your users actually want, especially if they don’t know themselves. The session was particularly valuable due to the high calibre of questions and above average audience input.

If you have further questions for Joe, make sure you hit him up over at our community forums.

If you’re interested in Joe’s book Think First, we have a deal for UX Mastery readers. Save 20% off the purchase price by using the discount code: THINKFIRST20

If you didn’t make it because you didn’t know about it, make sure you join our community to get updates of upcoming sessions. If you’re interested in seeing what we discussed, or you want to revisit your own questions, here is a full transcript of the chat.

Transcript:

hawk
2016-06-15 20:00
For anyone that hasn’t been part of these sessions before, this is how we roll. I’ll intro Joe, Joe will intro the topic, I’ll throw it open for questions and I’ll queue them if it gets busy.

hawk
2016-06-15 20:01
So I’ll kick off now with a very quick intro to the man that needs no intro – @joenatoli

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:01
@hawk: aw, shucks :relaxed:

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:01
Joe is one of my favourites, simply because he’s so approachable and willing to help.

 

wendy
2016-06-15 20:02
I agree with you @hawk

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:02

Joe Natoli is the author of Think First: My no-nonsense approach to creating successful products, memorable user experiences and happy customers.

His online UX courses serve over 46,000 students, and he has consulted with and trained Fortune 500 and 100 organisations for nearly three decades. His articles, tips and advice can be found at http://givegoodux.com.

You can also find him on Twitter @joenatoli

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:02

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:02
And I *highly* recommend it

 

evonney
2016-06-15 20:03
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

dzasti87
2016-06-15 20:03
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:03
Today we’re going to talk about user requirements and how we figure out what it is that people actually want.

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:03
But I’ll throw over to @joenatoli for a proper intro to the topic.

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:03
If anyone has questions about the way the session works, feel free to ask at any point

 

jeremyl
2016-06-15 20:04
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:04
Hello all! First, I am honored that all of you have taken time out of your lives to check this out. Means a great deal, not a second is taken for granted.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:05
Users matter, and not just because the word “user” is the first word in UX. They matter because they live at both ends of what I call the UX value loop:

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:05
if value goes out to them, they use something. When they do that, the business that created it gets residual value. That’s the gig.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:05
But we humans are…uh…messy.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:05
Unpredictable.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:05
Difficult to please sometimes :wink:

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:06
And just about everythign in our path influences our reactions, our goals, and what we’re willign to do.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:06
UX starts at the outset, with requirements, with figuring out what people want, needf and are willign to use

 

ashley
2016-06-15 20:07
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

jxslepton
2016-06-15 20:07
Hola

 

laurel
2016-06-15 20:07
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:07
@jxslepton: Welcome Jason

 

jxslepton
2016-06-15 20:07
Joe I’m enrolled in your UX course on udemy!

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:07
So we start by trying to figure out who these folks are. But what we say isn’t always what we mean, and what we ask for isn’t always what’s best for us. My goal today is to help you get some clarity on figuring out what matters ? and what doesn’t.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:08
So I’d invite you to fire away ? I shall do my best to serve.

 

desertcoder
2016-06-15 20:08
As a Business Analyst now working in a User-Centered Design team, I see a struggle between UI/UX and Developers. How can the two co-habitat when there are unknown technical constraints?
I was taught that user requirements should not include specific UI details. How should requirements/user stories be written instead?

 

jrae17
2016-06-15 20:08
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

judi-p
2016-06-15 20:09
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:09
@desertcoder: UX and BAs have more in common than they know, btw…the issue between UX and Dev is usually because they’re not speaking each other’s language

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:10
UXers talk about UX principles, coders talk about what’s feasible. I tell teams that they need to understand each other’s concerns, because both solve parts of the UX equation – importance and feasibility. And UI shouldn’t be explicitly addressed, but functional elements that wind up there should be explored

 

scottg
2016-06-15 20:10
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:11
and technical constraints are everybody’s friendÑthey draw boundaries that allow everyone to FOCUS

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:11
Also – requirements are not FEATURES.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:11
Features are SOLUTIONS.

 

laurel
2016-06-15 20:11
I am a graphic designer wanting to move into the UX/UI world more. I have taken several small online courses to get an understanding but want to know what you would suggest doing to start building my real world experience while still maintaining a full time job.

 

jxslepton
2016-06-15 20:12
I had a conversation with a family member who works in the tech field in a non ux related department. He asked how important it is to have a degree in the UX field because he doesn’t even consider applicants who do not have a degree

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:12
At the requirements phase, we should still be asking QUESTIONS. Assuming nothing, planning a path to get clarity. Admitting we dont know what we dont know

 

peterpedersen
2016-06-15 20:12
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:13
@laurel: what matters ijn a portfolio isn’t viosual evidenceÑits how you THINK

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:13
What problems has your work solved for clients? Tell those stories (show if possible). More on this: http://www.givegoodux.com/pick-brain-007-create-ux-portfolio-real-world-experience/

 

ziebell
2016-06-15 20:13
I have a 16 year background in QA. I’ve found that working with UX engineers EARLY?.before epics or user stories are even written cuts to the chase and directly impacts the team, the UX and benefits the customer with the most positive significance. I started this in one org, and have yet to see it elsewhere just yet.

 

wendy
2016-06-15 20:14
Joe, I see a big discrepancy between what UX experts see as the most important skills for UX work and job descriptions

 

rmwever
2016-06-15 20:14
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:14
@jxslepton: What you can DO is, to me, more important than the degree. But every employer is different.

 

wendy
2016-06-15 20:14
Most job ads want a combination of visual designer/ ux

 

vedanthk
2016-06-15 20:14
I think It’s important to know the why users say different than what they need. What type of situations or reasons create the disparity between what users say and what they want? Are there common patterns that exist that could help prepare us UXers to judge better?

 

anil
2016-06-15 20:14
@joenatoli: How would you approach problem/ feature/ for enterprise application Ñ where you don’t have direct contact with user. Requirements are generally from upvotes on salesforce . Lot of assumptions goes into PM specifications. Once sprint is done, it takes nearly 3 to 4 months to reach customers.

 

wendy
2016-06-15 20:14
Or a unicorn

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:15
@ziebell: RIGHT ON. Early and often. Everyone engaged. It’s the first thing I tell Enterprise teams.

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:15
Note: I’ve started queueing questions for Joe so that no one misses out

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:15
@vedanthk: people don’t lie on purpose, first of all.

 

jxslepton
2016-06-15 20:15
This might explain my response or lack of response to jobs I’m applying for. I need to explain the process more than provide visual evidence in my portfolio. Thank you

 

ziebell
2016-06-15 20:16
@joenatoli: :slightly_smiling_face:

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:17
@vedanthk: what happens is a result of the way our brains are wired; what we imagine we do is influenced by ego, unconsciously. It’s also influenced by the kind of day we’re having or things we struggle with.

 

britannie
2016-06-15 20:17
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

judi-p
2016-06-15 20:17
I’ve been a UX designer for years before computers – figuring out what works for people from the place I live between the technical side and the user side. Forms design in the days of Gestetner machines required much the same approach. So if you have examples of how you solved a problem in the analogue world which has parallels in the digital world, that can be the starting point. The idea that one needs a degree in something that is just emerging on the scene is one of those ridiculous notions where employers get lazy and universities get right in front to ‘own’ the rights to credentialing what is already an organic process.

 

luvyours
2016-06-15 20:17
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:17
It’s very hard to imagine using somethign without actually using it, and all too often that’s what interviewers do; there is no substitute for actual use.

 

meriannin
2016-06-15 20:18
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:18
we all make very false predictions about futurte behavior: “if I just get this 9product) I’ll be happy, it’ll change my life” Ñ but that rarely happens.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:19
Observed behavior tells the truth, but I think this simply isn’t possible in a lot of situations, for a lot of teams. Has that been your experience? All?

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:20
Enterprise orgs especially are reluctant to devote time, budget and people. “We know what our customers want” or “we’ve never done that before.” or “we’ll table that as a nice-to-have.”

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:20
So the best way to determine what people want is to WATCH them work Ñ and look for workarounds.

 

evproductviking
2016-06-15 20:20
At my company we’ve recently started using Full Story to watch how our customers are navigating through our product and where they are stumbling. It’s been extremely useful but probably just short of being in the room and being able to ask questions.

 

ashley
2016-06-15 20:20
Some enterprise apps. High value and time restricted have prevented access to the core users. Major assumption and no user testing possible (live sutu testing that is). Any thoughts on processes to improve experience and provide greater value in these circumstances?

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:21
Situations where they’re doing something outside the planned flow/system because they hate it, or it sucks, or someone else isn;t doing their part.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:21
@ashley: YES.

 

alexandra
2016-06-15 20:22
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:22
Welcome @alexandra

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:22
If you can’t observe users, you can still get a handle on their behavior working with stakeholders, department heads, particularly in B2B situations

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:22
FYI for anyone that is keen on getting Joe’s book, we have a deal for UXM readers. Save 20% off the purchase price by using the discount code: THINKFIRST20 http://uxmastery.com/think-first/

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:23
I do this with contextual use scenarios, the visual version. Boxes and arrows. I sit in a room with stakeholders and I ask them to walk me through how people use the system. As we do, I ask them to point out places where things get bogged down or broken or……

 

ashley
2016-06-15 20:23
Yes. But I find they have their agenda and functionality requests and requirements but not always UX focused improvements. Value vs time issues and whose budget its pulling from.

 

diana_isaza_shelton
2016-06-15 20:23
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

joecodev
2016-06-15 20:24
@joecodev pinned a message to this channel.

 

desertcoder
2016-06-15 20:24
What about getting Feature requests from those same stakeholders, department heads, who have little hands-on experience with the old product or the new product being developed?

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:24
They point it out and I ask “why does that happen?” and they tell me a story. And I note it. And I’m oversimplifying here, but what I have found for the past 20+ years is that the very act of doing this causes everyone other than the storyteller to have what I call an OH SH*T moment.

 

ziebell
2016-06-15 20:24
@desertcoder: you mean feature creep?

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:25
There are at least 3 people in the room that didn’t know this was happening. That people were doing this or acting this way, whatever. That exposes the rabbit hole. If it’s an expensive rabbit hole it’s usually easy to convince them to do some shadowing to figure out what’s wrong and how to fix it

 

ashley
2016-06-15 20:26
Nice!! I love environment observations.

 

judi-p
2016-06-15 20:26
The best proof to a potential client or employer is to put your UX skills to work on that interface. That is, the client/employer is the end user who need to grok the value of your UX mastery, and your skill set and potential value to them is the product, your self-marketing efforts are the interface. It’s a much more empowering place to work from than trying to shape-shift to meet whatever you think they look for in a resume, or paying money to a school that promises credentials that will give you an advantage over the other unwashed masses of UX design unicorns. And oh, yes, it is an anthropological approach. Find an informant and work with them as your test user….

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:26
@desertcoder: There are several ways to validate those requests. What I see most are user stories, and what I suggest teams do is rewrite them by adding two qualifying statements connected to the VALUE of that feature Ñ and then asking the stakeholders to fill in the blanks. If they can’t, it makes them question the request :wink:

 

RELATED:  Transcript: Ask the UXperts — Entrepreneurship & Innovation with Steve Baty

daniel_condurachi
2016-06-15 20:27
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:28
The two statements are “this will solve the problem of ____________________” and “it will result in (MEASURABLE VALUE) for the organization.”

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:28
If they can’t answer, they don’t know why they want it either.

 

ziebell
2016-06-15 20:29
@joenatoli: I also ask about business need and value, especially when it comes to budget

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:30
@ziebell: Absolutely. ANd if there are vague answers to either, you stress the fact that time over the target is finite. Ask them what’s actually worth doing? And if no one knows, we need to figure it out.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:30
Anyone whose question I missed?

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:31
Did you get: @vedanthk I think It’s important to know the why users say different than what they need. What type of situations or reasons create the disparity between what users say and what they want? Are there common patterns that exist that could help prepare us UXers to judge better?

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:31
you did. ignore me.

 

ashley
2016-06-15 20:32
@joenatoli: any tips for winning over management regarding UX when being overlooked in line if time crunch and financials and functionality deliverables?

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:32
@ashley: Yes – find a connection to money. Saved or made.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:32
If you can demonstrate the potential consequence or GAIn atatched to UX work, you’ve got their attention. Everything else (best practices) will be ignoredÑguaranteed.

 

ashley
2016-06-15 20:33
Yes. That’s my normal approach once in the room. And pooling from my archive of wins and value added. Thanks.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:33
If the potential gain is $1.2M, I ask doesn’t it make sense to spend $40K to see if we can grab it?

 

evonney
2016-06-15 20:34
How do you measure value if you work for a nonprofit? There’s no $$ amount.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:34
@evonney there has to be a cost of doing anything, right?

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:34
@joenatoli: How heavily should business goals weigh into prioritising user needs and requirements?

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:35
So anything you spend time on, you’re watching cost and trying to reach a desired, valuable outcome. The balance between the two determines what’s worth doing.

 

ashley
2016-06-15 20:35
Time is money. Productivity is saving and therefore is value. Just 2cents.

 

luvyours
2016-06-15 20:35
@evonney: what metrics are they measuring themselves against? if UX effort increases engagement and sponsorship/donations, or impact of the org, that would assist your argument, no?

 

geofferson
2016-06-15 20:35
has joined #ask-joe-natoli

 

yasmine
2016-06-15 20:36
What type of questions/keywords should you avoid asking in user research to ensure you’re not setting up your interviewee to respond with jumping to a solution instead of the problem?

 

evonney
2016-06-15 20:36
@luvyours: i’d say media mentions, how much info is spread on social media

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:36
@hawk: it’s half the equation. Business goals matter, because anything the organization can’t fund, can’t sustain, results in product failure. They have to see that the current and future investment in continuous UX improvement is worthwhile. Much of what we do is trying to help them get outta their own way.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:37
@yasmine: GREAT QUESTION. I want to answer this.

 

luvyours
2016-06-15 20:37
@evonney: yes, but what does x media mentions result in for their impact as an org? they’re only measuring part of the picture?

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:37
Valuable UX interviews result from asking OPEN-ENDED questions about how people do what they do. Leave the ‘what’ out of the equation. Here’s what I mean by that:

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:38
You don’t ever want to sayÑhow do you you use [ system or specific feature/ tool ] to accomplish task X??

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:38
Anyone know why?

 

pixelgem
2016-06-15 20:38
My guess: you’re leading them toward talking about a particular task/goal.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:38
Correct. The question is leading: it focuses their answer on the tool instead of why they’re using it and what they need or expect to happen. You want to know what they do Ñ with or without the software in question. If you provide too much detail in your question, if you give context, you won’t hear about all the things they do outside of the software to get the task done. Which, in my experience, are the things that present real opportunities for improvement.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:39
If you’re too specific, you won’t hear about the workarounds they’ve created that will suggest new features, new functionality or changes that need to be made to workflows.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:39
So instead you ask: “how do you accomplish Task X?”

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:39
No more than that.

 

vedanthk
2016-06-15 20:39
So rather than the tool, we focusing on the task would be a good approach

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:39
@vedanthk: beyond tasks Ñ you want to focus on OUTCOMES.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:40
Forget about the software or app or the site Ñ you want to find out what their motivations and expected outcomes are.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:40
Workarounds in particular are GOLD MINES. When you see the crazy things people do to avoid using something, it opens everyone’s eyes.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:42
And don’t be afraid of silence that follows the question: represss the urge to fill it with your own voice. Let that silence do the heavy lifting, allow space for the person to think through things.

 

yasmine
2016-06-15 20:42
Do you have recommendations on what type of user research methodologies to implement for trying to make a “process” more ease of use rather than a “product”? For example, how easy it the process your user goes through to discover and buy your product or the process of installing your software.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:43
Most requirements conversations focus on features and functions instead of outcomesÑso you wind up with a list that is all trees and no forest, if you get my drift.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:44
@yasmine: to me, it’s the same process. Observe users or diagram and question with stakeholders. How do they hear of us, how do they get here, what do they do next?

 

ziebell
2016-06-15 20:44
@joenatoli: forgive me if I missed this one: I wanted to ask about the gulf between UX tools and dev tools. For example, one dev team was complaining that they had to re-create, from scratch, the mock ups and prototypes that the UX team created. Lots of room for errors here. The dev team wanted the UX team to use the same delivery tool set ‘the IDE’ to avoid this mismatch. Your thoughts?

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:45
fpr product install/implementation issues, I want to talk to the techs, to the help desk, support folks. What consistent, recurring compaints occur/ Where to people get hung up repeatedly?

 

yasmine
2016-06-15 20:45
Ahhh! Makes sense. Thank you!

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:47
@ziebell: that’s one I don’t see often, actually. It’s a matter of collaboration, the two of them determining (1) what SHOULD be re-usable from UX work and (2) what trhe capabilities of the team are. I am not of the belief that all designers should be developers, or vice versa. Working knowledge is criticial, but the combination is actually more rare than anyone would have you believe.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:47
It also sounds like the two depts are siloed in some way, whcih is not good. They should be working together from word GO.

 

ashley
2016-06-15 20:47
Amen

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:48
Either agree that prototype work is throwaway, or get dev involved in building and UX/design providing artifcats or direction in a way that keeps things moving

 

ziebell
2016-06-15 20:48
@joenatoli: Thank you.

 

ziebell
2016-06-15 20:48
@joenatoli: On the topic of supportÑthe hang up I had in one role that the latency between the release of the product updates (1st of the month) and the release of the support docs (30/31st of the month). My approach was to give voice to this rift, rally the team members, vet the documentation prior to product release. It look some timeÑbut I successfully reduced the support documentation from 30/31 days to 24 hours after product release.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:49
@ziebell: KUDOS to you Ñ that’s a monstrous gain!!

 

ziebell
2016-06-15 20:49
@joenatoli: indeed. It was by no means easy, but worth itÑbecause the customer was the winner. and that ought always be the goal.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:49
Questions Ñ hit me!

 

frankenvision
2016-06-15 20:50
How do you know when you have enough information to work with?

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:50
@frankenvision: clarify for me – to do what?

 

yasmine
2016-06-15 20:50
How can you identify that your documentation and support techniques are useful when you have a small pool of users? Is a little user feedback better than none?

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:51
@yasmine depends on how little feedback and in what form. If it’s survey, you need high volume to accurately identify real problems and weed out comp[laining.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:52
If you get 5 people you can watch do something, DO IT.

 

yasmine
2016-06-15 20:52
Thanks! :slightly_smiling_face:

 

kevin
2016-06-15 20:52
@ziebell: @joenatoli I’ve found adopting an atomic workflow process (or something similar) can help to uncover and communicate required features/aspects from the get-go & can make a huge impact for clear communication between stakeholders/dev/strategy/design

 

ziebell
2016-06-15 20:53
@kevin: thanks for the input.

 

hawk
2016-06-15 20:54
We’ve got a few more minutes left everyone, so if you’ve been sitting on a question, now is the time to ask!

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:54
@kevin: I’m hearing a lot about “atomic workflow” lately, and to be honest I’m unfamiliar. But of it’s getting results, USE IT! There is no one-size-fits-al solution for user research, requirements, design, dev, etc. I do have to say that the minute something is given an official term I’m suspect, though :slightly_smiling_face:

 

meriannin
2016-06-15 20:55
I have a client that wants to put a news feed on every page of the website. I can’t find any research to say that is a bad idea. What are your thoughts and can you cite any user studies on this?

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:55
People become attached to formality in our industry in a very unhealthy way.

 

yasmine
2016-06-15 20:55
How can you tell when you’ve reached the root/core of the problem in interviews?

 

kevin
2016-06-15 20:55
@joenatoli: hehe…agreed! process and what works ahead of labels every time

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:55
@meriannin: I’d want evidence that people actually care about it, and that it supports whatever else they are there to do. Otherwise, it’s distraction.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:56
Especially if it’s “industry news” or some such thing. People already have sources, channels they use for this stuff, and you’re not going to pull them from those channels to yours.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:56
That’s the old “stickiness’ argument, and it’s bullshit.

 

frankenvision
2016-06-15 20:57
How do often do you test your own assumptions? Or is everything based on user research?

 

ashley
2016-06-15 20:57
@meriannin: also. Check that the clutter and possible performance issue are balanced against the added value. If not its a no.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:57
@yasmine: it’s not always obvioous when you reach the stopping point, but when you start running out of questions it’s time to prototype.

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:58
@frankenvision: After almost 30 years of doing this, I do often lead with my assiumptions, but only if I see patterns that tell me I’ve seen this movie before.

 

jeremyl
2016-06-15 20:58
Going back to the start of your process “trying to figure out who these folks are”. Do you always create personas?

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:58
But even then, I want to test them, validate them. My thing is I always assume I could be wrong. I don’t like to guess, I want to know.

 

frankenvision
2016-06-15 20:59
Great answer, thanks

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 20:59
@jeremyl: I do, but not in the way personas are usually created. I get a rough sketch of a user and then run them through empathy mapping, situational mapping and contextual use scenarios. These get you much closer to reality much faster. One sec, I’ll give you a link:

 

 

desertcoder
2016-06-15 21:00
Thank you!

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 21:01
@desertcoder: you’re welcome. the honor is mine.

 

jeremyl
2016-06-15 21:01
Thanks very much Joe

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 21:01
@jeremyl: thank you!

 

ashley
2016-06-15 21:02
Thanks Joe!! Good to meet you (virtually)

 

hawk
2016-06-15 21:02
That’s about it for our time. Thanks SO much Joe. You rocked it, as always.

 

hawk
2016-06-15 21:02
Reminder for anyone that is keen on getting Joe’s book, we have a deal for UXM readers. Save 20% off the purchase price by using the discount code: THINKFIRST20 http://uxmastery.com/think-first/

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 21:02
Gratitude to all of you Ñ go forth and GIVE GOOD UX!

 

hawk
2016-06-15 21:02
And if you have follow up questions for Joe, here is the place for them http://community.uxmastery.com/t/follow-up-questions-for-joe-natoli/1220/1

 

toyah.coolican
2016-06-15 21:02
Thanks for your time Joe – always so helpful! :blush:

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 21:03
@toyah.coolican: I deeply appreciate that!

 

hawk
2016-06-15 21:03
I’ll post a transcript of the session up on UXM later today, and you’re always welcome to revisit this channel in the future

 

hawk
2016-06-15 21:03
Thanks everyone for making the time to join us

 

ziebell
2016-06-15 21:03
@joenatoli: thank you!!

 

joenatoli
2016-06-15 21:04
You’re welcome @ziebell. Ciao!

 

frankenvision
2016-06-15 21:04
Thanks Joe and Hawk for putting this together

 

hawk
2016-06-15 21:04
@frankenvision: Pleasure

 

hawk
2016-06-15 21:05
Later all

 

Sarah Hawk
Written by
Sarah Hawk
Join the discussion