Transcript: “I went looking for a UX job the hard way, but won in the end” : Ask Me Anything

Session starts: 4pm Tuesday 16 August PDT (9am Wednesday 17 August AEST)
You can use the command /tz help to get time zone conversion assistance here on Slack

: 30 minute call for Doug Collins AMA on overcoming hurdles to find your dream UX job.

Welcome to everyone that is here for Doug’s session. Feel free to introduce yourselves while we wait for kick off :slightly_smiling_face:

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Hi everyone! Great to see you all here.

@gracieg: Welcome!

Hi! :slightly_smiling_face:

Have you been to one of these sessions before?

Hey @ashleamckay

Good to see you here too

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Hi all!

Hi @jenny!

@kelvision: @jenny Welcome :slightly_smiling_face:

whatsup everyone!

haha

Hey Steve! Great to see you

Is anyone a first timer to these sessions?

Hello :slightly_smiling_face: This is my first time.

Yay!

Welcome :slightly_smiling_face:

Hello everyone. First time here.

Hello! :smiley:

Hi! No I haven’t been to one of these yet

Great to have you @latonya and @gracieg

So the format is very relaxed. Shortly I’ll introduce Doug, he’ll introduce the session, and then you guys can jump in with questions until his fingers fall off

haha

If things get busy, I’ll queue questions, so ask them as they come to mind

Gracie what the heck is that you are holding in your picture?

haha, a fish!

hahaha @stevecrow I was wondering the same thing!

I couldn’t tell if it was a bat or a moth

turns out it’s neither

The first fishy I ever caught :slightly_smiling_face: Got him in Alaska

From the water?

ha!!

crazy looking fish!

fits the profile!

haha

:smile:

This is wonderful, thank you for putting this on

We love doing this kind of stuff

You’re welcome. We run them most weeks on different topics.

Hello everyone. Aspiring UX designer from the SF East Bay here

Where are you guys all checking in from?

welcome @seyonwind

I’m in Auckland, NZ

Australia!

it’s coming up lunchtime on Wed

I’m in Melbourne, AU

Vancouver, BC

Heaven

haha

ok no Salinas, CA

Australia

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Indiana, US :corn::corn::corn:

Welcome @tim

UX designer in Santa Clara. Actively looking for UX positions after being a stay-at-home mom.

Hi all, and @gracieg – I’m in Vancouver, BC, also!

I finally made it to one of these on time. I’m usually reading the transcripts after the fact :nerd_face:

Hey Seyon!

Awesome!

Thanks @hawk, nice day in Auckland isn’t it!

You’re here too @tim ?

Hey Steve! Funny seeing you here :wink:

hah

First time that?s happened!

Anyone from nyc here? :slightly_smiling_face:

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NJ

@hawk yep on the North Shore

Awesome! I’m usually all alone down here. I’m over the other side, in Epsom

Whoops, I got carried away. Kick off time!

You good to go @dcollins5280 ?

I’m ready to roll!

Great stuff!

Cool. So welcome everyone. Thanks for taking the time to join us this morning/afternoon/evening

Big thanks to Doug for giving us the gift of his time and experience

I’m very happy to be here :slightly_smiling_face:

We first me Doug when he signed up at our community forums (which you should all join BTW http://community.uxmastery.com ) earlier this year

Doug caught my eye with his UX story http://community.uxmastery.com/t/from-homeless-to-ux-engineer/864

In his own words: Doug Collins has taken the long road to his current position as a UX Engineer for Trust Company of America. After years as an unsuccessful freelance journalist, Doug was forced to live out of his subcompact car for a little less than a year. During this time, Doug worked as a call center representative for Nordstrom during the day while independently studying web design, development, user experience, and user interaction by night.

Using this knowledge, he was eventually able to land jobs as a Software Engineer with Nordstrom, a contracted Interactive Designer and Team Lead working with a digital signage company, and his current UX Engineer role.

Doug specializes in streamlining existing inefficient systems to fit modern usability standards.

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And he’s here today to answer questions about overcoming hurdles, not giving up, and following the long road to your dream career

So I’ll throw it over to you to give a brief intro to your story/the topic @dcollins5280

And then– questions

@roberto: Welcome :slightly_smiling_face:

Thank you!

Hi everybody! (HI DR. NICK!)

I’m really excited and honored to be hanging out with everyone this afternoon/evening/morning/midday (depending on where you all are). Thanks to @hawk and the UXMastery team for giving me a platform to share my experience. Y’all rock.

So. Onto the topic at hand.

Hawk already gave a very good TL;DR of my career progression, as well as a link to the medium version of events. You can read the long version of my story at my blog, http://lostmegabites.com/2016/06/15/from-homeless-to-ux-engineer/

It was a long road, but one that taught me so much about the corporate world, the technology sector, and my own abilities. I’m here to share my story, offer advice, and (most importantly) learn from the amazingly talented group of UX professionals and enthusiast here today. Let’s get rolling!

Who wants to jump in with a question? I assume many of you here are trying to break into UX. What is your biggest challenge?

*Jeopardy theme song plays*

My biggest challenge is lack of ux work experience with real clients…

@hawk @dcollins5280 First: thanks for putting this together.

The biggest challenge I’m facing, which may be unique, is I have a lot of ux-adjacent experience. How do I avoid getting trapped into doing what I’ve already done.

How can I create more work samples BEFORE I am actually employed?

What did you do specifically that you attribute to landing your first UX job? Was it your experience, your education, connections, or something else?

Most companies are looking to hire a Senior UX designer with 5+ years of experience. How do I overcome this? I have had a few short contract and freelance roles, but how can I push through without the experience most companies are looking for?

What was first experience as a UX designer like? -once you got hired for that role.

Your title is ‘UX Engineer.’ How does that differ from ‘UX Designer'”

@frankenvision: Practical experience, no matter where it comes from, is huge with employers. Do whatever you can to get experience in any way possible. One of the biggest things I did was to partner with other new professionals to work on projects we both found interesting. It gave me the opportunity to work with a team, build a portfolio, and show that I could actually do the work. Open source projects are also usually in desperate need of attention.

@anne-dougherty: Can you expand a bit?

I have just come out of a UX boot camp and am in my first contract job with a young start up that doesn’t have much direction and no mentorship type roles above me. I’m worried that the young start-up path might be hindering my progression but no larger companies are replying to my resumes or portfolios as I am so young in the industry, Do you have any advice for young, enthusiastic ux designers trying to pierce through to the corporate world?

Note: I’m queueing questions now

@hawk: thanks!

@latonya Don’t let the length-of-time requirements for a position stop you from applying for a job. The worst that can happen is that you don’t hear back. The best that can happen is that you get an interview based on your strength of work. It all depends on how the company is handling their interview process.

@dcollins5280: Sure…I’ve been working as a webmanager and doing content strategy and IA but I’d like to expand into more usability and interaction design. Every interview (OK, there have been 2) seems to want to put me back into doing…content strategy and IA.

In some ways I guess my problem is the same as @stevecrow and @frankenvision : How do I show I can do other things?

Note to channel – if you feel you can answer questions or have things to add, please feel free

Okay, @anne-dougherty, that makes a lot of sense. There’s no substitute for practical experience. The best way you can show that you can do something is to actually do it.

Have you looked for any open-source projects to work on? Do you have a portfolio built out?

@dcollins5280: Yep, I do. But open-source or charity projects are a good route. Thanks for the reminder.

How do you determine which open source projects are never going to launch for whatever reason and which will actually result in shipping code?

Do you have any recommendations on where to find open-source projects to contribute to? I’ve heard of Creatives Without Borders.

@gracieg: One of the good things about UX is it’s a lot of finding your own path. Are there meet-ups where you are? Anyone you could approach to mentor you even if they don’t work at your company?

I feel overwhelmed trying to learn as much about ux as possible… I’m not sure where I fit in… Do you specialize in anything @dcollins5280?

@seyonwind: For charity projects you can try https://www.taprootplus.org/projects

hi @dcollins5280 , Most of my experience involves call centers but noone sees past that even though I now have front end web development experience and noone gives me the chance to do real UX work. I may do another call center role pretty soon but do you have advice to get higher ups to quickly have trust in you to work with them on projects related to UX?

@thisisdallas: As to what I attribute to landing my role, it was a combination of things. I studied journalism in college, but had been doing web design as a freelance thing since I was a teenager. I had a good background to draw from, and when I was living in my car I had A LOT of time on my hands. I studied what I could, and ended up with a great toolbelt of skills to draw from (PHP, HTML, CSS, MySQL, UX, etc.)

@anne-dougherty: Thanks for replying! Yes I have someone I can speak with as a mentorship like person, who is wonderful, however I’m really looking for team work and solidarity rather than being more solo and in control when I dont feel in the know…. Yes, I attend meetups and conferences too :slightly_smiling_face:

When I finally felt comfortable applying for UX jobs, I was able to speak intelligently on a variety of topics. I was also lucky to have quite a bit of practical experience working a previous job as an interactive developer where I took interactive digital signage projects start-to-finish. I got that job by showing what I could do with open source and personal projects.

Bottom line, it came down to a lot of hard work over the course of time, but I didn’t do anything anyone else couldn’t have done. I just put myself in position to take advantage of the opportunities that came up.

@gracieg: I know…saying “do you go to meet-ups” is like tech support saying “have you tried another browser” :face_with_rolling_eyes: Solo is hard, for sure. I wish I had a better answer.

@seyonwind: My god, my first UX Experience was SCARY. I’m not going to lie about that. It was a new experience for me, and I am a UX team of one for my company. I was coming into an environment where I was expected to be an expert, and I did my best to carry myself like one. I was very conscious of how I presented myself and the type of collaborative environment I was looking to build in the first few days. It paid dividends indeed. I’ve been on the job for about half a year now, and we are growing a great UX culture.

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As far as Engineer vs. Designer– there’s not really much formal difference, in my experience. More of what HR chooses to call you. The roles are pretty much interchangable.

@dcollins5280: How do you deal with that…with Imposter Syndrome?

@gracieg: Have someone look over your resume and portfolio and critique it critically. Especially as a young professional, you may be making some mistakes you just don’t have the experience to recognize quite yet. If you’d like to send them over to me, I’d be happy to review them. PM me and I’ll drop you my email.

@anne-dougherty: Have you read this article? http://uxmastery.com/owning-mistakes-ux-career/

@hawk: I have not. Thank you!

and related discussion http://community.uxmastery.com/t/the-importance-of-being-humbly-confident-learning-to-own-your-mistakes-in-your-ux-career/1734

@dcollins5280: wow! That’s very generous. I would love too. Thank you very much

@stevecrow: So happy you’re here! One of my favorite dudes in the forums :slightly_smiling_face: Figuring out which open source projects are going to ship is rough, so I actually tend to work on open source projects that are either shipped or close to completion. Even if they don’t accept my UX changes, I still get some great practice and possibly something to put in my portfolio as a proposed change.

haha doug – I had that SAME idea, so funny!

@seyonwind: I get a lot of open source work from looking around for code bases on GitHub. I have some developer experience, so I’ll occasionally fork a project and use it for my own purposes.

I was actually thinking of approaching iPhone app developers from the store, so I know they have already shipped at least one version

@frankenvision: I know how you feel. It’s a rough place to be. I don’t specialize in anything other than streamlining existing UX, but that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t. Is there any particular aspect of UX you find interesting?

@shoyastarr: Call center family unite! :facepunch:

I try to minimize my call center experience on my resume. I list it so that employers know that I don’t have a gap in employment, but I don’t list what I did.

Your resume should be focused on what you can provide to the role you’re applying for. If it’s not relevant, cut it out.

OK, what about employment gaps then? what if you DO have them?any advice?

@anne-dougherty: My goodness. I could talk about imposter syndrome for days.

thank you @dcollins5280 !!!

Hi @dcollins5280, I’m struggling to find an entry-mid level UX job in Australia because I need sponsorship. I only have 2-3 years of experience working in UX as a team-of-one as one of my responsibilities. I feel like my career growth is suffocated by my current employer because they don’t value UX enough to make it a position on it’s own. They think someone with an attention to detail can do both QA and UX?and they think that the person doing UX shouldn’t be talking to clients/customers/users to get feedback through usability testing or research. I’ve done amazing work over the past three years and improved the company in so many areas that it’s really disappointing to not get any support from my employer in pursuing my own goals. I’m trying not to risk my livelihood and future more than I have to. Any advice? Am I asking too much out of life to live where I want AND do the work that I want to do? Is the answer a longer term strategy instead of a short term strategy?

It’s something I’ve struggled with a lot in my professional career, especially as I don’t have any formal education in UX or the tech world. I constantly feel like I don’t belong. I try to think of my job like a long-term relationship, though. Nobody is perfect, especially at the beginning as you’re both figuring things out. Eventually things will either work out, or they won’t. All you can do is your best. Go out each day with a full heart, ride the highs for as long as you can, and when the lows come remember that THEY CHOSE YOU for the job.

Obviously somebody already believes in you. It’s a great reason to believe in yourself :slightly_smiling_face:

@dcollins5280: Thank you!

@stevecrow: How big of a gap are you talking?

Errrr let’s say three years

:disappointed:

@leovogel: Usability testing and research are part of UX. So…know you aren’t crazy.

No worries man. Did you do any volunteer work during that time?

I’m interested in IA, Interaction Design and Usability testing…

No I was transitioning from another career field – video production – as a solo-preneur – trying to find work – and didn’t

long story too long for here

@anne-dougherty: I know I’m not crazy. They’re the crazy ones. Though I expect it’s more that they’re cutting corners/don’t have the resources to make QA and UX two separate positions.

No worries. I know the feeling.

Would you feel comfortable listing that time as working for yourself as an independent video producer? If that’s what you were doing during that time, I’d list it that way, and describe it in terms of what I learned in that job that I could apply to my new position.

OK, I can do that

@leovogel: Yep, just ’cause it’s all under the same umbrella doesn’t mean one person can do it all :wink:

Hi @dcollins5280 My question is around how I can as a Product Manager improve the UX knowledge and awareness of my team of developers?

We all appreciate good UX when we see it and use it, however creating it from scratch is more difficult. We have lots of discussions (arguments) about how our app should look and flow, and as we all have different backgrounds and preferences we also have different opinions on UX. We obviously engage with our users and value their feedback, we’re also learning a lot from hands on experience as we just build things, make mistakes and improve it, however I feel we as a team need to be more confident and consistent in our UX abilities and deliverables. Reducing the time spent on iterations will speed up time to market for product improvements, so my thinking is that producing better quality UX earlier on will help us ship faster (yes I have my PM hat firmly on)

@tim – the research should settle the argument, yes?

@leovogel: I’m from Denver, Colorado, so I can’t speak a whole lot to the Australian work permit issue. We do have some fellow Aussies in the room, though, so perhaps they may be able to give some advice down that road. As for your strategy, however, I don’t think a long term strategy is necessary. Do you have a portfolio yet? If not, can you build one?

in other words, go with the direction your research already supports and iterate from there, shouldn’t need to be any arguing imho

@tim: We’re looking at running a UX workshop in Auckland for teams in your position. DM me if you think that’s something you’d be interested in.

@leovogel: If you can see how you have improved the company (and think bottom line as they do), make a business case for supporting you. Don’t be a Cinderella, go after it. I approach these things like an anthropologist, finding an informant (someone who knows the culture well – they don’t have to be inside that specific company) and learning the ‘language’. This puts the onus on you to discover what problem your employer has that you are helping to solve, and find a way to tell them that in terms that matter to them. Believe me, this process will come in handy for freelancing, working with clients, just as much as it can lead you to a better positioning inside a company.

Good point, it does some of the time, perhaps we just need to do more of it and as early as possible.

Thanks @hawk will do

@dcollins5280: I have a small portfolio but it doesn’t show a detailed process; it’s more examples of the wireframe work I’ve done. Like I said, I’ve be severely restricted by my current employer in terms of what they’ll let me do and what responsibilities they’re giving me (I’m the only person doing QA or UX). I need to find a position in the next couple of months or I’ll have to give up. I can’t spend a lot of time creating mock projects for a portfolio or learning new skills.

@tim The situation you describe is *exactly* why my company decided they needed to hire a UX professional. A lot of what I do is helping to streamline the development process in our Agile environment and be the expert that keeps the group out of those types of conversations. Is hiring a full-time UX’er a possibility for you?

: We’re almost at the end of the queued questions so if you have something to ask, now is the perfect time.

@leovogel: Understood. Are you looking to stay with your current company, or get on somewhere else (given your preference)?

@hawk: Shew! I’m loving all of the questions– and hoping I’m being helpful.

@dcollins5280 and @judi-p: For many reasons, I think I need and want to move on to somewhere new

Thanks @dcollins5280 and @hawk

Do you have an online portfolio? The link to 5280creative.studio on your site isn’t working

Hi Doug, Thanks for being here. I’m exploring the field of UX design and graphic design in general so I’m out learning everything I can about the field at the moment. My question is: What are hiring managers looking for in terms of skills and portfolio? What programs do I need to know and what’s the fastest and most effective way of learning those programs, attaining those skills, and building up that portfolio? And is there anything you wish you knew about the field before going into it?

@dcollins5280 Not right now as we’re doing so much full stack development that we couldn’t keep them busy full time, however engaging with a UX expert as required could be a viable option.

Wait, nvm. I got it (but the link is still broken, fyi)

@leovogel: I’d target my search towards smaller companies with a startup culture. In my experience, they’re more likely to give you a shot based on your ability rather than your experience. You’ll still need to put together a good resume *focused on your UX work*. Don’t waste any time on anything apart from what you can do for them, even if it’s the bulk of your current position.

This is off topic, but what’s the significant of 5280? Nice portfolio site btw

@seyonwind: Apologies there– I’ll fix it. I’d also like to note my portfolio is in poor shape at the moment. I went to change it earlier, and got sidetracked. There’s only a couple of low-level projects up there now.

5280 is a mile above sea level. I’m from Denver, the “Mile High City.” We’re exactly a mile above sea level :slightly_smiling_face:

Woah! We’re about 100m above sea level here

@dcollins5280: the problem with smaller startup companies is they’re much less likely to be willing to sponsor someone

@hawk: Where I live is at sea level :wink:

@anadilbham: Kudos to keeping things going on the self-learning front!

@anne-dougherty: Hope the polar icecaps stop melting then!

@hawk: Hahaha. Not much chance of that. We’re about 2 hours in-land so it’s all good.

: We have 5 mins left in the session. Does anyone feel that their question was missed or needs further discussion?

@hawk: any plans for running any UX workshops in Wellington?

Skills: Adobe CS (Specifically Photoshop and Illustrator), mockup programs like Justinmind or Sketch, something for low-fi mockups like Balsamiq are all good things to add to the resume.

@leovogel: Too true, it doesn’t sound like a very nurturing place for a new career. However, a mindset shift as I am suggesting is useful for your own career self-management. I like self-marketing, which is a more proactive approach to finding places that need you and your talents, than job-seeking alone. Position-filling is a big investment for a company, and of course you need to be employed, but the postings alone don’t tell the whole story of a company’s need for workers. Short term contract work can be an audition for more. Has been for me.

Yep, we hope to. Ping me after the session @mandrew :slightly_smiling_face:

@mandrew: Potentially, yes. Email me on hawk at http://uxmastery.com to discuss further if you?re interested

Cool thanks @hawk @lukcha

As far as skills are concerned, graphic design, working knowledge of web development (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and JQuery are all good places to start).

@mandrew: Ignore me. Ping @lukcha (he’s the guy that does the teaching!)

Also, I can’t emphesize the importance of the s

I feel strongly about the s as well

oft skills in the corporate world– communication and leadership. They don’t show on a resume, but they are vital to succeeding in the industry.

Absolutey!

:+1:

Well, this feels like a natural place to close.

Thanks so much @dcollins5280 ? you’ve been an absolute star.

I don’t want to say “thank goodness”, but today was certainly a workout for my fingers :slightly_smiling_face:

Thanks to everyone for all the great questions!

Thanks so much @dcollins5280 :slightly_smiling_face:

Thanks everyone for joining us

Thanks so much for sharing your time with us today @dcollins5280. And thank you as always for hosting another great session @hawk

If you’d like to follow up with me personally, please feel free to DM me here, or find my contact information on my website (http://5280creative.studio).

If you want to discuss this stuff further, join us at http://community.uxmastery.com

@seyonwind: You’re very welcome.

This is such a useful conversation to be having. I’d love to continue it in the forums.

Thanks all

Good night/afternoon/evening/day y’all! Thanks again for coming by!

Later everyone :slightly_smiling_face:

Cheers!

Thank you!