Transcript: Ask the UXperts: Sketchnoting with Mike Rohde

Transcript: Ask the UXperts: Sketchnoting with Mike Rohde

Mike Rohde
Summary:

“Ask the UXperts” is a casual chat-based session featuring a different expert each time. It is One Hour. One Expert. All your Questions Answered.

In today’s session (our second) we featured Mike Rohde—Sketchnoter Extraordinaire. Here’s a transcript of the session.

This morning (here at UX Mastery), we ran the second session in our Ask the UXperts series. If you’re not sure of what I’m talking about,  Ask the UXperts can be summarised as One Expert. One Hour. All your questions answered.

Our guest this morning was indeed an expert and trailblazer in his field, so we were fortunate to have him on board.

I’m talking about Mike Rohde of Rohdesign and he was talking about sketchnoting. The sessions are a text-based chat, hosted in a Campfire chatroom and the format is casual. It’s a bit like picking someone’s brains over a beer, only it was a bit early for a beer (unless you were in San Francisco).

Unfortunately, timezones mean that someone always misses out, so if that was you this time (or if you were part of it and would like to revisit what we discussed), you’ll find the full transcript below. If you’d like further information about future sessions, make sure you join our community where I’ll keep you in the loop.

For those of you that would like to see exactly what went down in the session today, here is a full transcript for your reading pleasure.

HAWK
Ok, so now that Mike is here we can kick off. Thanks for your time today Mike, and welcome.
Mike R.
Great to be here!
HAWK
So for those of you that don’t know Mike, he’s a bit of a legend when it comes to the art of Sketchnoting. You can see his work at rohdesign.com
He is also the author of The Sketchnote Handbook, of which there is a set of videos. I’m a big fan. You can read my review of them on uxmastery.com
HAWK
Mike has been kind enough to offer us a copy to give away to one of you during the session today.
HAWK
So do your best to impress me ;)
Luke C.
Here’s a link to @hawk’s review: http://uxmastery.com/review-the-sketchnote-hand…
HAWK
Anyway, on that note, I’m going to ask Mike for a brief introduction to Sketchnoting and the role that it can play with regard to UX
Simon C.
Looks Awesome!
HAWK
And then I’ll throw it open to you guys for questions. :)
Mike R.
That was a great review BTW. My friend Brian Artka @bartka who shot the video was pleased too.
HAWK
So Mike, over to you…
Mike R.
Alrighty.
Mike R.
Well, I think sketchnoting can be valuable for thinking – and of course if you do UX work, you know that’s the core of what we do – we think through problems and provide solutions to them.
Mike R.
I think sketchnoting can be valuable because it lets you express yourself fully – both your verbal skills (writing) and visual skills (spacial, visual images, color, etc).
Mike R.
It’s also a good first step toward getting ideas out of your head and on paper. I’ve personally found software often guides you toward the way *it* wants to work, rather than letting you work the way that ideas are taking you.
HAWK
Yeah, very good point re software. Is all sketchnoting done with pen and paper though? Or do some people choose to use technology?
Simon C.
Mike Rohde: do the sketches need to be as nice as yours :)
mark
Mike Rohde: when you sketch note, do you listen until you get the idea ? but then how do you ensure you don’t miss other important bits …
Mike R.
I’ve used sketching and sketchnoting (combining sketches with words, imagery and so on) for many years, and it has really helped me think better. It also comes in very hand for collaborating with clients and colleagues.
Mike R.
I prefer pen and paper but I think a tablet or even a stylus and a Wacom tablet work. Again, there is some software limitation, but there are benefits too. So you have to weight that.
Evelyn
How do you determine what to sketch vs. write notes vs. simply listen? Especially when in the moment?
JohnLacey
Has anyone used the LiveScribe pens?
Mike R.
Simon – no need for fancy artwork in your sketchnotes. Really, it’s a map to help you figure out ideas. You might want to make sure it’s legible for clients or colleagues – but even explaining something can cover art that isn’t fancy.
Mike R.
Evelyn, it’s a practice for sure, but I think you already are making choices about what you remember or think about in conversations now. I simply say to seek the things that either resonate or you can apply to make your life better, and let the other details that are not to that level go.
Simon C.
Mike Rohde: Rohde thanks
Travis
Mike Rohde: Do you find that you use your sketchnotes to help pitch your team on an idea on the spot, or do you generally just use them for yourself and then show a more refined idea/mock up to the team?
Mike R.
When you try sketchnoting you may find there are many bits repeated – more than you think. And several things just are not as interesting to your context.
JohnLacey
Do you find you develop a visual language through the practice of Sketchnoting?
HAWK
Simon Catford: One of the things that I took away from Mike’s videos was the suggestion that you don’t need to be a great drawer. When you were a kid you drew (like no one was watching) and you were proud of your work. You just need to reconnect with that child.
Aaron J.
Hi Mike, thanks for your time. Do you think it is important for your sketches to communicate the idea/concept to others or it’s just important to get an idea down.
Matthew M.
Mike Rohde: Would love to hear more about how you collaborate with clients using sketchnoting. I’ve tried it when interviewing people, when I think it would add value, but I missed important stuff and ended up resorting to written notes.
Mike R.
JohnLacey – I have used the LiveScribe and personally don’t like a ball point pen tip. Others who have done extensive sketching with it say at some point it can get lost to where the connection between recording and writing is hard to connect.
Travis
Matthew M: I find the same
JohnLacey
Interesting. Thanks @Mike R.
Mike R.
Travis – Both. I use them to prepare and explore ideas, and also use them on paper or a whiteboard to share my thinking. It’s great in a group setting because you can be agile and adapt ideas based on feedback.
Simon C.
HAWK: thanks! I think sketching brings out the inventor :)
HAWK
You can also join the conversation about it on our forums here http://community.uxmastery.com/forum/news/881-a…
mark
Mike do you find that Clients are receptive to sketchnoting in a collaborative capacity. How do you get them out of their shell?
Mike R.
I did that on an agile team not long ago – whiteboard sketches for the team to understand a problem/solution and also something I did on paper to map out a signup process to get the pieces of the flow in the right order. In that second case, I did 3 revisions of the sketch until we nailed it together. then it became a document for the developers to use for building. They loved it.
Simon C.
Mike Rohde: come do a workshop in L.A? :)
Travis
Mike R: Can you recommend any good websites, books, videos, etc. that cover how to be a good “notesketcher”? There’s a ton of how-to-draw type stuff out there but often I find it’s way more detailed than I’d like it to be. I can sketch ok but feel like I’m missing a few essential techniques that would make my notetaking better
Mike R.
JohnLacey – I thin practice is definitely the best way to improve – that and stealing ideas from other sketchnoters. :-)
Matthew M.
Travis: Has Mike got a book for you! :D
Pranav G.
Mike Rohde: how do you convince your co-workers in a startup, that sketchnoting is a valuable UX practice and a way to communicate your ideas similar to storyboards, scenario mapping etc.
Travis
Haha i just realized I was probably answering my question :)
Mike R.
Aaron – I say sketchnotes are first personal and then public. So at worst they are a safe place for you to work out ideas and try really dumb stuff to see how it looks in the light of day. At some point you can choose to share those with a team, client or even the public.
Evelyn
What do you think is the greatest benefit of sketchnoting?
Mike R.
I have also found incredibly, rough sketches when well presented can express ideas pretty well.
Verity
MikeRohde: Is sketchnoting for UX situations to allow you to act as a graphic facilitator, or is there a specific design/collaboration process that is enabled by sketchnoting?
Simon C.
Mike Rohde: do you sometimes have people pluck ideas out of your sketch notes that you didn’t see?
JohnLacey
I used to like the idea of drawing with Sharpies but I found the fumes really went to my head. lol
Aaron J.
Thanks Mike!
Mike R.
Matthew M – I would say to not feel bound by any perceived idea of what a sketchnote should be. I think of them as on a slider – on the left is pure text and on the right is pure imagery. We live somewhere in the middle – so if you are interviewing people and need granular data, stay way to the left and maybe add icons to keep things a little visual. If you’re sketching a wireframe idea, then you can live way over on the right side. :-)
Luke C.
JohnLacey: depends if that helps you get new ideas? =P
Matthew M.
Simon Catford: Great question Simon.
JohnLacey
Lol @Luke C.
Pranav G.
thanks @Mike. Another question : where do you see sketchnoting in the design process, is it more useful consolidate insights from research, understanding problems, or skectch ideas. Can skectchnoting replace some of the the UX practices/deliverable that are common these days ?
Matthew M.
Mike Rohde: Thanks Mike. Fair point!
JohnLacey
I actually really like drawing with mechanical pencils.
Mike R.
Also on collaboration with sketchnotes – I always say that we talk with each other and *think* we are agreeing but often we are not. I think by sketching out ideas – especially for UX people and designer – we at least have something to disagree about. Once that idea is sketched out it adds a level of detail that words alone may not express as well.
sarahbell
i have had to re-do a few sketchnotes recently because i’ve found that the speaker’s content hasn’t been well-structured. :( so my original sketchnote is a bit all over the place. any thoughts on dealing with tangents/subject changes on the fly?
Mike R.
(I’m working my way through my backlog, so I’ll get you your questions as fast as I can :-)
JohnLacey
So — as UX folks — do you ever ask test users to sketchnote?
HAWK
For anyone that hasn’t realised, I’m queueing the questions for Mike so he’ll get to them. :)
Mike R.
mark – I think it can be often a challenge to get clients to draw. My solution is to state it up front and make it clear we are working on ideas and not art – that word art has lots of baggage, so when you get it off the table and people don’t feel judged under an “artist” microscope, the meetings go great. We’re solving problems with ideas – no art allowed!
Luke C.
That’s a good point – just going with it and making it an expected part of the process can make sketching infectious and clients will often jump on board
Mike R.
Travis – I think there are a wide variety of resources starting to appear now. Visual thinking is getting momentum for sure. I can prepare a list for Sarah and we can post that later. Then I can gather that list for you guys.
Annette T.
So if you had never done this before what would be the most important thing to keep in mind? enjoying the debate on what tools people use and why
HAWK
For anyone that wasn’t around at the start of the session, you can see Mike’s work at rohdesign.com and you’ll also find details of his existing book and his soon to be released one, both on Sketchnoting
sarahbell
we’ve been doing a few design thinking/ideation sessions which get participants to draw their ideas. have seen some good work from encouraging creativity among stakeholders.
Mike R.
Evelyn – greatest benefit of sketchnoting is that you are using your full brain skills for ideas. Not just text nor just images, but both together and overlapping for a richer capture of what is in your head.
Matthew M.
Yes if your team/client are receptive to it, facilitating a session where everyone sketches is a very rewarding and inspiring activity
Mike R.
Verity – I think graphic facilitation is another level above sketchnoting – it requires great facilitation – but the good thing is that as you are capturing things visually, you probably have the best idea in the room of what the room is thinking! But that’s (at a pro level) a very specialized skill for sure. :-)
mark
:) Mike
Mike R.
Simon – Yes! People see patterns in what I do from time to time for sure. That’s what is interesting – once the idea becomes visual and solid, people can have opinions about it and get involved.
Mike R.
Pranav – I think sketchnoting and sketching can be used all over the design process. I have typically used them early on for capturing and organizing ideas, sketching out concepts – but even as the project reaches a more finished stage, sketchnotes can be used to capture feedback, to document user testing and even help with documentation. It just depends on what you need them to do.
Matthew M.
Mike Rohde: What tips do you have for capturing sketchnotes digitally? Obviously a flat bed scanner gives the best quality image, but if you’re at a conference and want your sketches to be part of the Twitter back channel, are there any phone apps that help? Should you use your phone camera’s flash? Should you photograph your sketch on the ground? On your lap? Any other suggestions for cleaning/polishing your sketch when you don’t have ready access to a computer?
Pranav G.
thanks @Mike
Simon C.
Mike Rohde: my sketches get disorganized very quickly! Any tips?
Mike R.
sarahbell – I bet you have been able to spot really good speakers from not good ones judging by your re-do of sketchnotes! I would say that if the notes are for your reference, who cares if they are imperfect? So long as you can extract ideas from them. But I do understand the desire to have clean, organized sketchnotes too, especially if presented to others. Sometimes the craziness is inevitable – bad speaker! be more concerned that you are getting value from the talk and less on the structure – and if need be, created a revised version (you can cut off-topic details that way too).
Simon – BTW, I was just talking about a SD/LA workshop later this summer. We’ll see.
Simon C.
Cool!
Mike R.
JohnLacey – I have never asked a test user to sketchnote, but that’s a very interesting idea. I would have to show them how it works possibly, but it would be interesting.
sarahbell
thanks mike – i’ve been sketchnoting a lot of presentations around the org that i work in for wide distribution. they’re being very well-received which is cool. but certainly more time-consuming (and pressure) when not just for your own reference!
Evelyn
Do you have a formula that you try to follow for # of images:notes? i.e. 50/50? 80/20?
Matthew M.
sarahbell: There’s a book about mind mapping that you might find interesting. It’s called Mapping Inner Space by Nancy Margulies. It’s quite an old book but still a fantastic read. She advocates reworking your mind maps, and suggests that’s the process you’re supposed to follow. So if you’re sketchnoting to flesh out ideas, don’t worry about reworking your sketches. Embrace each one as an improvement on the last. No real hard/fast rule about “this is a precious moment that cannot be touched”
Mike R.
Annette T – I am completely agnostic on tools. Use what works for you. I prefer different ones for different settings – small pocket Moleskine sketchbook for travel, conferences where portability is important. Medium Moleskine squared n notebook for sketching ideas and larger grid or dot grid notebooks for wire framing.
sarahbell
thanks matt – will check it out :)
Kathryn
Evelyn: nice question, I like that one :)
Mike R: …following on from Evelyn’s question, do you have advice as to how your notes should flow around the page? Is there any structure?
Jeremy B.
What online/web 2.0 tools are the best for sketch notes?
HAWK
And you can follow up after the session at our forums http://community.uxmastery.com/
Mike R.
I also use different pens and pencils as needed – Pentel Energel 0.7mm for most work and a Retro 51 Stealth pencil with thick, soft lead for sketching ideas and wireframe work.
Jeremy B.
or iPad apps…
Matthew M.
Jeremy Brown: Haha, I thought we left web 2.0 behind us in the naughties! :D
Mike R.
Annette T – also, the thing to keep in mind is to listen well, analyze as you hear interesting things and focus on getting those ideas down. If need be, you can start an idea, leave space for it and keep going – knowing you can return at a quiet moment or even the end to expand on that stake in the ground.
Jeremy B.
LOL…I don’t always have pen & paper handy…the iPhone/iPad are more readily available
Simon C.
Retro 51 Stealth pencil looks nice :)
Matthew M.
Jeremy Brown: That’s a sad state of affairs! A reflection of today’s reality I suppose. But I always carry a pen/paper :)
Evelyn
Thanks @kathryn – one i’ve just been curious about!
HAWK
Matthew Magain: But why is it sad?
Matthew M.
HAWK: Just a reflection of my nostalgia for analogue tech I suppose!
HAWK
Heh. :D
Jeremy B.
Matthew: It’s not sad with everything else I tend to have to carry along..including all my 22-month old daughter’s necessities at times
Luke C.
Jeremy Brown: I use one called Pen and Ink that works pretty well
Matthew M.
Mike Rohde: Mike I was also wondering how you found large-scale sketching. Do you have any tips about making the move from sketching small-scale on notebooks to sketching large-scale, i.e. on whiteboards, and graphic recording/graphic facilitation on posters stuck to the wall?
HAWK
Jeremy Brown: You’re getting very close to the stage when you’ll have to carry paper and crayons everywhere anyway.
Mike R.
Matthew M – capture tools: I think most smartphone cams are quite good! If you want a clean image, there are several scan apps now that offer great tools for cleanup. I like using my stock camera and since I work in B&W, change the contrast and make images B&W. I save scanning for when I get home. Of course there is the little Doxie Flip that’s very portable –http://rohdesign.com/weblog/2013/11/6/doxie-fli…
Jeremy B.
HAWK: Very true
Simon C.
I think lead to paper is best. Get off the interface :)
Jeremy B.
I haven’t been sold yet on the crayons/markers for kids and the iPad
Mike R.
I also like Camera+ for the controls it offers for messing with the contrast and for posting to different channels.
Annette T.
Thanks everyone I like the idea of pencils and paper and a big wall…
Mike R.
As for where to shoot pics – look for interesting surfaces. I like tables and floors or even nice walls. Outdoors if you can get it provides daylight, but flash can be handy too.
Simon C.
I have a scan wand!
Matthew M.
Mike Rohde: Thanks. I have tried a couple of scanner apps, and like the ability that Genius Scan has to skew the image if it wasn’t photographed perfectly square. But it doesn’t do grey—only black and white, so the subtleties get lost in the image.
Mike R.
Simon – for disorganized sketchnotes maybe try a format like a modular grid or columns to keep yourself working within a structure.
Simon C.
Ok thanks!
Jeremy B.
Simon: Scan wand?
Matthew M.
Simon Catford: How do you find that, Simon? Looks interesting.
sarahbell
has anyone tried using a livescribe pen approach – special pen and paper that records audio as well. you can then click on the paper and it will play the audio of whatever was being said at the time you wrote or drew something?
scan wand – sounds very james bond!
Mike R.
Evelyn – I don’t have a formula – it varies some in context to the content I am capturing. Sometimes words capture it better so I lean that way, other times images do, and I lean that way. Personally I came from a notes-heavy background so I am maybe more like 50/50 or even 60/40, and I do try to incorporate more images as I know my default is more on the text side oddly enough!
Simon C.
Matthew M.
LiveScribe looks interesting. I hadn’t seen that before.
Ankit
Hi…. I’v used POP, an iPhone App …where u can just take a photo of your sketch and make it a workable prototype
Simon C.
I wish note taking on paper had spell check!
Jeremy B.
Ankit: POP sounds cool
Mike R.
Kathryn: – In The Sketchnote Handbook I capture 7 patterns for sketchnotes and why they work well. some patterns are better for some things than others, and that’s OK. Those include linear, radial, vertical, path, modular, skyscraper, popcorns
Ankit
Kathryn
Mike R: Thanks. Looks like I need to get my hands on your book then :D
Matthew M.
Similar to LiveScribe, I’m a backer on this Kickstarter project: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1663146472…
sarahbell
live scribe is good but the pen is quite fat. hopefully they’ve made improvements on that since i last used it!
Mike R.
Jeremy B: – I have invested into Flickr to show my sketchnotes – easy to use and a nice community there. 500px is also interesting, and I think some photographers really like Google+ but I have not resonated w/ Google plus that much. I also get reactions on Facebook and Instagram to my sketcnnotes.
Kathryn
Jeremy B: Pop app IS cool! I’ve only just started in UX and shown it to senior UX designers, and they were very impressed with how much time it saved them!
sarahbell
oh yeah – iSketchnote is very exciting. people thought i was strange when i bought a bookpad cover for my ipad – which has a spot for the ipad and a spot for a notepad.
Kathryn
…and it’s available on Android too, importantly. ;)
Mike R.
Matthew – large scale sketchnotes are an entirely different animal. I have had a little experience but not enough to give lots of advice – other than to try it out and experiment. Graphic recorders and facilitators use very similar techniques to sketchnotes, so I think it’s much more about scale and pacing at scale (and getting use to people watching you draw up front!)
sarahbell
HAWK
Mike is at the end of the queued questions so if anyone is sitting on one that they’d like to ask, now would be a great time to throw it into the mix.
Matthew M.
Mike Rohde: Yes I feel much more confident in a notebook than on the wall, although I have done some graphic recording/facilitation for clients lately. I take my hat off to folks who do that for a living, it’s hard!
Jeremy B.
So many things to check out !!
Evelyn
Do you have any ‘go-to’ patterns that you find work well in a variety of talks/meetings? I saw sketchnoting in action this year at SXSWi, and it seemed those notesketchers had a vocabulary of images (if that makes sense) that conveyed the session well.
Matthew M.
Mike Rohde: I did get the opportunity lately to sketchnote a conference presentation using a document camera that was projected onto a large screen for the audience. That was fun!
Mike R.
As for iPad apps – I like Penultimate, Adobe Ideas and Procreate. Many like Paper and I do too, though the brushes haven’t the fine control I’d like. and with the iPad I really have not synced with all the pinching and zooming – I prefer not to – but that might signal that I need to challenge myself. :-)
Matthew M.
It was a tough talk though, so I ended up just creating a mind map/radial layout, as there was very little to work with in terms of grouping related info!
Luke C.
Mike Rohde: When working as a UXer, have you come across any cases where sketching wasn’t as useful as you thought it might be? When might sketching not be helpful?
Simon C.
Bigger drawings take more energy.
Mike R.
Matt – yes – a doc camera is a great solution to the large scale issue – and you aren’t in front working either!
Mike R.
Evelyn – one pattern that is great for panel discussions with many people is a skyscraper – you establish a column for each person and then sketchnote what they say above (or below) them in their column.
Simon C.
Great idea!
Mike R.
Modular also can help if you want one or two big ideas per talk – with several blocks defined ahead on a single page
Justin
Do you have any examples where using “sketchnoting” provided more useful information than textual? Quite often, I see a sketch accompanied with text that is conveying the actual representation of the idea. I find it interesting that an image is made, but they a label is given to it to make it clear what it is.
Matthew M.
Mike Rohde: Sketching has obviously afforded you some wonderful opportunities. Do you still do some user experience design work, or have you embraced sketching/teaching as your defining service that you offer folks?
Mike R.
Kathryn, I have heard of Pop and I think some other apps like it – really great blend of drawing and tech!
Luke C – mostly sketching has worked well for me in all situations. No places where it was an issue, yet. :-)
Luke C.
Glad to hear it =)
Mike R.
I could see thought that in a tense meeting it could distract, in those cases keeping it closer to the vest might help – or being proactive and offering to explain what you are doing can get people out of the idea you are screwing around and “doodling” as if you were not paying attention.
HAWK
We have about 5 minutes left in the session and three questions in the queue, which is about perfect.
Evelyn
What’s your thought on colors in sketchnoting?
Kathryn
Mike R: One more questions from me…(sorry, I’m very new to this, so apologies if they’re daft) – what about white space? Any advice about how much/little you should have on the page?
Mike R.
Justin – sometimes the image itself is clear enough to convey the idea, but often labels or descriptions help. When I do concepting I often number the ideas or sections so I can annotate it with typed text if I am posting it on Basecamp for instance.
HAWK
And the free copy of Mike’s ‘The Sketchnote Handbook’ goes to…
drumroll
John W.
boom
Bill M.
Hawk: I chuckle every time I see the later today statement. Here in NY it’s Thursday night.
Matthew M.
Kathryn: Definitely check out Mike’s book or course. http://uxmastery.com/review-the-sketchnote-hand… I think you’d enjoy it :)
Mike R.
Matthew – I do UX/UI about 60-70% of the time and the rest is sketchnoting and illustration work. I really love UX/UI and don’t want to lose it, but I would love also to go illustration/sketchnoting/teaching full time too. May still happen! :-)
HAWK
more drumming
HAWK
Simon Catford!
Matthew M.
Congrats Simon!
Simon C.
Wow!!!
HAWK
Bill Marshall: It’s 1pm Friday here
Luke C.
Congratulations Simon =)
Simon C.
Cool thanks :)
Kathryn
Thanks Matthew M. – definitely will! (And congrats Simon!)
Simon C.
Chuffed!
HAWK
But anyway, back to the questions…
Mike R.
Kathryn – not a daft question at all! I like white space personally – and if you have it you can annotate your sketchnotes later. Maybe about 10-20% if you can do it (and that’s a practice to get better at for sure).
Simon C.
Thanks guys
Kathryn
Mike R: Perfect, thanks again!
Mike R.
Congrats Simon! And we should talk more about a sketchnote workshop in LA. My instructional designer lives in LA in fact.
Matthew M.
Thanks so much Mike for being so generous with your time and tips. And everyone should definitely check out his book, it’s a great read and will inspire you to get sketching!
HAWK
You’ve been absolutely amazing. The session has been fantastic.
Mike R.
Thanks guys. I will say as a parting note that I am now working on The Sketchnote Workbook with more ideas for using sketchnotes to capture thinking and experiences…
Luke C.
It would be great to continue these conversations over in the UX Mastery Community forums:http://community.uxmastery.com/forum/news/881-a…
Mike R.
You can follow me as I draw, ink build and create videos for the book on my blog, Tumblr and Instagram
Matthew M.
Now everyone go do some sketches to capture their thoughts, and post them to the forums!
Luke C.
Ux Mastery also has a great list of sketching and visual thinking books here if you’d like to see/read more:http://uxmastery.com/resources/books/
Mike R.
Here are some lines for you guys – my blog with 5 entries on the book already – http://rohdesign.com/weblog/category/sketchnote…
Mike R.
My Tumblr – which I am using to capture stuff that is bigger than a tweet yet smaller than a full blog post – http://rohdesign.tumblr.com
Mike R.
There you’ll see the Instagram pics – I’m pretty much @rohdesign everywhere
Sarah Hawk
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